*Adult Conversation* How much does your Family ..??

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San fernando

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Opinion on Politics influence yours ??..Since its Elections season this should be a good thread. Do you believe most people in T&T political opinions are shaped by what their mother, father brother or sister tell them or do you believe there is alot of people who actually follow the news and read the facts of what is happening ??...

For me My family is diverse in political opinion but I do not have one. So what say you kids ??
 
I think some years ago, your family's opinion was THE opinion and you didn't really have an individual choice or say. I think with the advent of available resources and citizens becoming more socially and politically conscious, voters and especially first time youth voters decide for themselves who they are supporting. I'm sure there are still the 'followers' of the parties, but for the most part, I believe our country has come a long way from race politics.
 
Yes TFM I agree alot more people are more socially and politically conscious than lets say 20 years ago. I know there will always be a group of "followers" of a party despite what are the party goals or past/present performance, but that is no different from any society. However I will not be totally convinced that there has been a dramatic change in TnT poltics based on race or family influence until I see a major difference in ethnic demographic at political rallies or atleast major change in voting trend in such constituencies like Laventille, Couva, Diego Martin..
What do you think has caused the change in opinion from "some years ago" ?
 
RauCous said:
My family is apolitical so i don't care about politics either. I'm like the hecklers on the sidelines laughing at how absurd it all is.

nah man despite all the bachannal you can learn alot from politics...dont stay too far on the sidelines...you dont have to be a "follower" per say but as a citizen you should always maintain an opinion and be in touch about the governance or opposition to governance in yuh country
 
Source: http://www.trinidadexpress.com/index.pl ... =161588743

In a 1990 poll conducted by Ryan, 88 per cent of Indo-Trinidadian UNC supporters said that the party should be open to all, with just nine per cent saying it should be an exclusively Indian party. This compared to 65 per cent of Afro-Trinidadians who believed the UNC should welcome all supporters.

Now, in January 2010, Jack Warner has been elected chairman of the UNC, getting 9,195 votes to his rival Vasant Bharath’s 2,744. Political mischief-makers are already dismissing Warner’s victory as a result of his immense wealth: code for ’Dem Indians go do anything for money.’ But, even if this were so, it would still mean that racialism is mediated by other factors. Meighoo asserts, ’What analysts claim as ’racialist’ politics in Trinidad and Tobago amounts to not much more than competition for office and demands for a share of government patronage in terms of jobs, business contracts, directorships, State funding, and so on.’

This would explain why Indo-Trinis are more politically open than Afros, since they have more to gain from such a strategy. It is why the PNM has been able to attract more Indo voters than the obverse. Were the situation reversed, where the Indo party was as monolithic as the PNM, then Afro-Trini voters would very likely be more willing to cross the racial political divide than Indos.
 
Well, if you look at the voter breakdown of the last general election back in 2007, you will notice that COP, despite being a new and dominantly Indian party gained thousands of votes in PNM strongholds. Infact, in places like Diego Martin especially, the UNC got less than 1000 votes while the COP got more than 4000 votes in each of the three territories.

More people are analyzing the actual politics rather than the texture of your hair or the colour of your skin.

What do I think caused the change? Young people are becoming more vocal in social arenas. It is now easy to express and share your opinion with your friends via Facebook etc. It is easier to get information and find sources to support your thinking. Ironically, free tertiary education has also paved the way for more critical and open minded thinking among youths.

What we are seeing is a modern day post-colonial situation, where people are using the opportunities provided by the PNM, in this case, free education, to fight against them, just like the slaves used English that were thought by the Euros to "write back" and explain our real history from our perspective.
 
SOURCE: http://www.trinidadandtobagonews.com/se ... 485,.shtml


AS we celebrate Independence this year we should reflect on the road to our freedom.

It is said that self-government was gradually increased between 1946 and 1961 and the elections of those years served as dress rehearsals for independence.

From 1946 to 1955, East Indians were the best organised group in Trinidad and Tobago, according to history books.
Comprising only 35 per cent of the population in 1946, East Indians won almost half of the elected seats in the Legislative Council that year.

They used their votes to finally secure the legal right to marry and bury their dead according to Hindu and Muslim rites.

Since their arrival in Trinidad more than a century earlier, many East Indians had been classified as illegitimate because no unregistered marriage was considered legal for inheritance purposes.

Political parties remained fragmented in the 1950 elections, often united, as one historian has put it, by nothing more than a "common passion for the spoils of office."

One hundred forty-one candidates contested the 18 elected seats; the single largest bloc of seats on the Legislative Council, eight out of 26, was captured by an alliance between the "Butler party" and East Indian leaders.

The British and the non-East Indians disliked the idea of having Butler and his supporters come to power.

After the 1950 elections, none of Butler's party was chosen to sit on the Executive Council, the result being that Gomes practically ran the government.

Within the restrictions of his semi-autonomous government, Gomes tried to function as a mediator between capital and labor and to placate both Britain and Trinidad and Tobago.

He had limited success, however, and constitutional reform was postponed until 1955, with elections scheduled for the following year.

The election of 1956 was a watershed in the political history of Trinidad and Tobago because it determined the course of the country for the next thirty years.

Gomes was defeated, and a new party, the PNM, captured power and held it until 1986.

PNM founder and leader Eric Williams dominated the political scene from 1956 until his death in 1981.

Williams was a native Trinidadian who had spent almost 20 years abroad in Britain and the United States.

Although his family was poor, Williams had received a very good education by winning scholarships and had earned a First Class Oxford degree.

Williams' academic prowess set the standard for all Trinidadian and Tobagonian political leaders through the late 1980s.

While at Oxford, Williams was subjected to a number of racial slights, and he also suffered racial discrimination when he worked for the Anglo-American Caribbean Commission in Washington from 1948 to 1955, an organisation created in 1942 to co-ordinate nonmilitary aspects of Caribbean policy.

This discrimination profoundly and permanently affected Williams' outlook on life and his politics.

He was a man who knew himself to be the intellectual equal of educated people in Oxford, London, and Washington, and he felt that he had not been accepted as such.

Returning to Trinidad in 1948 as deputy chairman of the Caribbean Research Council of the Caribbean Commission, Williams involved himself in cultural, educational, and semi-political activities and became well known.

In 1956 he decided to enter politics and to forge a political party, the People's National Movement (PNM).

The PNM was created by middle-class professionals who were mainly but not exclusively black.

Its main support came from the black community, although Williams was also able to attract some whites and East Indians.

Williams gained a public constituency and a loyal party following by giving lectures in Woodford Square, the main square in Port of Spain.

His lectures on Caribbean history were attended by thousands, and Williams dubbed his interaction with the crowd the "University of Woodford Square."

There, Williams forged a bond with the people that remained even after his death 25 years later.

Trinidadians and Tobagonians were proud to have an international scholar in their midst. Williams gave them a sense of national pride and confidence that no other leader was able to match.

His charisma and leadership made it possible for the new party to be independent from existing political organisations and from trade unions.

PNM leaders envisioned a broad national party that would include both capitalists and labourers; as such, the PNM rejected socialism and welcomed foreign capital investment.

In 1956 the PNM captured a slim majority of the elected seats on the Legislative Council, receiving 39.8 per cent of the vote.

Butler's party and the TLP split the other elected seats.

The British governor, who controlled five appointed seats and two ex-officio seats, filled all of these with men acceptable to the PNM, thus giving the party a majority of two-thirds of the seats on the Legislative Council.

Because the British were hoping to form a Caribbean federation or, as a second choice, to launch viable independent countries, it was in their interest to support Williams, a charismatic black leader who had founded a strong political party, who had international education and experience, and who believed in private domestic and foreign investment.

Between 1956 and 1962, Williams consolidated his political base and resolved two very important issues: federation and the presence of United States bases on Trinidad.

The British created the West Indies Federation in 1958.

During the next four years, 10 island nations, including Trinidad and Tobago, struggled without success to make the federation into a government.

The two largest nations, Trinidad and Tobago and Jamaica, had opposing viewpoints; the former advocated a strong federal government, whereas the latter preferred a weak one.

Trinidad and Tobago, with its higher revenues, preferred representation according to financial contribution, but Jamaica, with its larger population, wanted representation on the basis of population.

After Jamaica decided in September 1961 not to remain in the federation, Trinidad and Tobago also decided to withdraw, not wishing to be tied to eight small, poor islands for which it would be financially responsible.

Despite British assistance and Williams' compelling personality, the PNM did not come to rule Trinidad and Tobago without a struggle.

A number of groups united to oppose the PNM in the federal elections of 1958 under the banner of the Democratic Labour Party (DLP).

Once again the campaign became racially polarised as the DLP attracted the East Indians and others who were left out of the PNM.

East Indians felt that their cultural identity might be lost if they did not stick together.

They deplored marriages between East Indians and blacks because they considered blacks to have an inferior culture; East Indians were less hostile to marriage with whites.

Blacks also looked with disfavor on intermarriage with East Indians.

In addition, the East Indian middle class, which had developed since the 1930s, seemed a threat to the black professionals who were just coming to power
.

The PNM increased its share of the vote in the 1958 election from 39.8 per cent in 1956 to 48 per cent; under the winner-take-all rule, however, the DLP won 6 out of the 10 contested seats, as most of its victories came in regions where the East Indians had an absolute majority.

The PNM profited from the British policy of granting increasing self-government to Trinidad and Tobago.

Cabinet government was introduced in 1959; the governor no longer presided over the Executive Council, the Executive Council and chief minister were renamed cabinet and premier (the pre-independence title for prime minister), and the premier had the right to appoint and dismiss ministers.

Mindful of their slim majority in the 1958 election, leaders of the PNM determined to take whatever steps were necessary to win the 1961 elections and be the party to lead Trinidad and Tobago into independence.

The PNM decided to use the issue of the withdrawal of the United States from the Chaguaramas naval base to unify the country and solidify their political base.

In party rallies in 1959 and 1960, Williams pledged that the flag of Trinidad and Tobago would soon fly over Chaguaramas and also declared independence from Britain and from the 1941 Lend-Lease Agreement.

Declaring that Trinidad and Tobago would not exchange British colonialism for the United States variety, Williams rallied the country to oust the United States from Chaguaramas and to support the PNM.

When British Prime Minister Harold Macmillan came to Port of Spain in June 1960, he told the government that he would open negotiations between the United States and Trinidad and Tobago over Chaguaramas and that Trinidad and Tobago would be an independent participant.

Once Williams had won the right for Trinidad and Tobago to sit as an equal with the United States and Britain, he cooled his anti-imperialist rhetoric.

The December 1960 settlement gave the United States base rights until 1977 and granted Trinidad and Tobago US$30 million in United States Agency for International Development assistance money for road construction and education.

The United States closed the naval base at Chaguaramas in 1967.

The December 1961 election, which took place after Trinidad and Tobago had received full internal self-government within the West Indies Federation, was characterised by the use of racial appeals by both parties.

The main constitutional issue was the drawing of electoral boundaries.

Pro-PNM supporters broke up DLP meetings with stone throwing; the government declared a State of Emergency in areas where East Indians were a majority and called out 3,000 police.

The PNM used its government leadership to good advantage.

Responding to labour unrest, Williams gave all government workers a raise during the summer of 1961.

He also moved politically to the right, purging some left-wing supporters who had been prominent in the Chaguaramas fight.

The PNM profited from the fact that the DLP was not a unified party.

Its leader had been ill, and younger East Indians felt that his lack of education was a liability when contrasted with Williams.

During the DLP political infighting, the new generation of East Indian professionals chose Rudranath Capildeo, a high-caste Hindu, to head the DLP.
Although Capildeo was highly educated, a Ph.D. and a fully qualified barrister, he lacked Williams' ability to appeal to the masses.

Eighty-eight per cent of the voters turned out for the December 1961 election; in a vote that largely followed ethnic lines, Williams and the PNM won with 57 per cent.

Reflecting the ethnic split, Williams filled the 12 cabinet slots with eight blacks, two whites, and two East Indians -- one Christian and one Muslim.

Appointees for the newly created Senate followed similar lines.

As Trinidad and Tobago faced independence, the Black middle class was firmly in power.




 
Now the info I provided in the previous post above (ESPECIALLY WHAT I BOLDED) are the reson why T&T Politics is the way it is today BUT I dont see any Major difference from then to now in terms of politics.My 2 cents
 
Yeah just skimming through i can see why it really is programmed into our culture. The mentality goes really far back.. I always assumes race oriented voting was just a convenient tool for parties to secure votes, but if the voting pool is so ingrained in this behavior we really do have a problem.
 
Well being a first time voter in the last general election and judging from my personal experience discussing the issues among my university colleagues of all ethnicities, I think we have come a long way from race politics. I'm not disagreeing that some people will vote based purely on race because it is a traditional outlook on politics, but you can't tell me, that with all the education and social consciousness we have in our society today, you don't see a major change? Firstly, the major change is that there is no race-related violence happening. Secondly, Indians and Africans hold high positions in opposing parties namely Jack Warner in the UNC and Kristine Kangaloo in the PNM. That was unheard of before. Thirdly, politics has slowly returned to real issues instead of stupidness like "he sleeping with the devil" and picong.
 
May 24th is elections and we will again see how race and voting comes hand in hand..TFM quit trying to sugarcoat the issue..Its been a problem since the 1960's and still exist today. We still have a big fraction of the public who vote based on race without knowing much about what is going on in the party , and sometimes not even knowing much about the issues.
 
Who is sugarcoating? Are any of my last three points incorrect in any way? Please enlighten me. You asked how it is different from the 1960s to now and I showed you. And I was just speaking from my personal experience as I clearly stated in my response. What proof do you have that race and voting goes hand in hand except personal opinion? And if it is indeed just opinion, what makes your view better or more correct than mine? I base my opinions on what I know, not on what the majority of society chooses to believe.
 
TFM said:
Who is sugarcoating? Are any of my last three points incorrect in any way? Please enlighten me. You asked how it is different from the 1960s to now and I showed you. And I was just speaking from my personal experience as I clearly stated in my response. What proof do you have that race and voting goes hand in hand except personal opinion? And if it is indeed just opinion, what makes your view better or more correct than mine? I base my opinions on what I know, not on what the majority of society chooses to believe.
No opinion, this is the way it is in T&T and in your previous responses you try to sugoarcoat by saying it is not as bad as I say it is..Do you live in T&T?..So you saying that there is no such thing as the ethnic vote in T&T ?..Currently most supporters of the UNC and PNM are of what race ?.. How much do you think a party relies on the ethnic vote to win an election? ..and this is not opinion its just how politics is in T&T..
 
Interesting read..(2006 Article)

Source: http://www.trinidadandtobagonews.com/blog/?p=49

Race and Politics in TnT
Published on July 18, 2006 in General T&T. 17 Comments
By Dr. Kwame Nantambu

For some time now, certain groups and individuals have bandied about the notion, albeit accusation, that they have been the victims/targets of racial discrimination and racial victimization by the PNM government.

However, while there may or may not be any evidence to build a prima facie case of discrimination and/or victimization, any racial connotation in either scenario is a colossal non sequitur.

The fact of the matter is that according to TnT’s 2000 population census statistics, the “ethnic mix” consists of 43.3 per cent Indian, 39.5 per cent Afrikan, 18.4 per cent Mixed, European 0.6 per cent, Chinese and Other 1.2 per cent.

In other words, the majority population in TnT is non-White, non-European and people of colour.
Continue http://www.trinidadandtobagonews.com/blog/?p=49
 
San fernando said:
No opinion, this is the way it is in T&T and in your previous responses you try to sugoarcoat by saying it is not as bad as I say it is..

No, no, you misunderstand me. I never said it wasn't as bad as you said it was. I was saying it wasn't as bad at the 1960s to which you were referring to. Your main question was, if it has changed, and I believe under the analysis of voter breakdown, it has.

San fernando said:
So you saying that there is no such thing as the ethnic vote in T&T ?..Currently most supporters of the UNC and PNM are of what race ?

Reading and understanding are two different things. Have you actually UNDERSTOOD my responses? Because if you did you would realize that I clearly conceded twice that race politics is STILL present...

Apr 10: "I'm sure there are still the 'followers' of the parties, but for the most part, I believe our country has come a long way from race politics."

Apr 12: "I'm not disagreeing that some people will vote based purely on race because it is a traditional outlook on politics..."

You are actually trying to say that Trinidadian society of today still has the same mindset of the society of 1960s? I asked earlier, how do you know that the voting is solely race driven? What proof do you have? Saying "that's how TT politics is" is not a valid argument. It is a value judgment.
 
Clevon Raphael..http://guardian.co.tt/commentary/column ... -ugly-side

It is pathetic to hear otherwise bright Trinis—one assumes they are—saying they cannot vote for this or that candidate because of their ethnic origin. I respect anyone who says they are unable to give their franchise to a particular party because they do not like its policies and things of the kind. However, I have been literally chasing away those who come to me with tribal crap because I firmly believe that we as a people are on the way to doing away with racial voting and to push that doltish head in 2010 is hypocritical and retrogressive. The results of the May 24 exercise would show how far we are really on the road to eliminating naked tribalism on voting day. Another aspect of the campaign I find very distasteful are the personal insults being hurled at various candidates by their opposite numbers. It is indeed silly and unproductive for supposedly intelligent men and women who are begging us to put them as leaders of the nation to be engaged in such unbelievable verbal abuse simply because they do not belong to the same political party.
 
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