Why the death penalty sucks!!

[RauCous]

I wasn't even gonna post this it is unlikely to change anyone's mind. Some people just like having other people die. They like to call it "the law" or "justice" but what it is is arbitrary, ineffectual, counter productive, over glorified legalised premeditated murder. The only reason I see people so enamored and obsessed by it is because the like it! I remember reading that we should have public torture and executions in woodford square.. i was like FOR WHAT?? For You to see? For the public too see? Who would want to see that!! They attempted to justify that it would act as some kind of deterrent.. REALLY? Since when? The criminally minded fully accept that death is an expected part of their lifestyle. If you dont belive me listen to any gangsta rap or dub song. Death penalty prevents repeat offense... :| no you serious.. death prevents repeat ANYTHING! In fact it does it so well it prevents you from committing any crime even if you never EVER did it before. For the life of me I cant conceive of the fact that some people are ok with executing a "few" blatantly and evidently INNOCENT people!! HOW COULD THAT BE A GOOD THING!? We're telling everyone that the innocent must suffer for what isn't even the greater good. Yes even people who dress like criminals, carry guns or live in bad areas (like me) are not guilty of every conceivable death related crime ever. The punishment must suit the crime? What kind of nasty perverted sadistic ideology is that?! Do these people know what murder is? Yes it is the ultimat infringement of human rights so to use it as a "punishment" we'd have to do it twice as hard, twice as heartless and cold and actually enjoy it cuz it's impossible to do something you dont see merit in... why are we killing this man again?.. oh yeah cuz killing is wrong.. thats illogical.
I'm terrible at these debates so these sites will do and they have irrefutable stats.
http://www.vincenter.org/95/gregory.html
http://www.aclu.org/capital/general/104 ... 71231.html
With a retarded unjust "justice" system like ours the death penalty should be the least likely thing to assert.

 

[admin]

Good points raucous as always, i'm in 50/50 on this actually i'm more for the death penalty, but it should be used only for the last means of punishment, we could go on and on about this topic same for the debate about "nature or nurture".
I want crime to stop but what if all the laws are being broken the place is out of hand the last resort should be the death penalty it is wrong but is it also wrong for the same man who was killing more than one persons. Should this person be given a fine and a few years and let off and then her commits the same sort of crime all over again, in this country we see that people don't change their life style would not change the only measure is to bring back to death penalty but to be used the last extent

 

[RauCous]

Thats what i dont get admin. If its wrong its wrong. There is no its wrong.. but. You've seen the stats what are you trying to say if crime gets bad enough we should resort to murdering people ourselves? If you say it's wrong its wrong in every sense. You're only given a death penalty if you get convictied. There is no possible way for a man who commits a murder to just get free just like that. They're different levels of killing crimes to most serious ones will never get back into the public. Death penalty only exist to pacify peoples blood lust. No way to deny that. It cannot and will never prevent crime... only better enforcement can do that. People are only comfortable with it because they are never the ones who are dying.
Are you saying admin that you'd rather kill a wrongfully accused man to scare people into lawfullness? The justice system is not 100 accurate.. if we bothered to use dna we'd see alot of wrongfully convicted people. Personally I'll never support Criminal measures to fight criminals. Thats pointless if we claim to be better than "those people". If killing is there should be no justifiable way for the state to do so. This is a contradiction plain and simple. People will never realise that death achieves nothing. In fact all it does is desensitise people to the worth of human life.
I see it as the equivalent of murdering you unruly children so the others will behave. That makes no sense. If a tendency to kill is there deal with the tendency... dont try to mop up the mess later and say that making a mess is wrong instead of putting measures in place to prevent it.
Suprisingly a number of people who support it are paranoid enough to think that "those people" are always a part of society and always alienate those "minorities" that posses a criminal element. For some strange reason only a certain socioeconomic class seem to be guiltier than others? There is an overwheling bias to people who appear " less innocent" regardless of what the court says.
We have to lose our hate for other human beings. It doesn't matter how criminal a person is it doesn't make them less human. We have this us versus them attitude that needs to die. As long as we exterminate "them" it's good right? That is complete and utter balls. Evil tendencies and ideologies cannot be killed they way men can.

 

[admin]

No dude i'm not saying that i said death penalty is to be and should be used to the last resort, Not everyone is the same some will fear the death penalty and some will not, its the same reason of fear the law puts on a person if he breaks the red light or litter and has to pay a fine. Its the same concept but the way the law is in Trinidad how it is not imposed the justice system will never work, the government is not serious enough about small crimes, small crimes are what lead to a lawless country, harsher penalty should be placed on small crime like littering, cursing, suting, so on, look how the usa does deal with these matters they don't take these matters likely, But in trinidad you does get away with these things.
So it all comes back to this we are grown into lawlessness as i pointed out, so if we has harsher laws we would achually fear being fined or anything thus we will grow into this mentality to obey the law. Now if this used to happen the hanging penalty would actually instill fear into people's minds, Remember these are way to prevent people from doing crime if you understand what i'm saying

 

[LadyDeath]

I understand what you and the admin are saying. To me i think that Death Penality should be given to a man that comits serious crimes like Killing another or comitting a really serious crime and the government is sure that what he is convicted for is the truth. Yes i think that if they carry out this method for murderers i think it MIGHT( not for sure) have an effect on criminals. Yes i know rappers and sort sing and gangsters listen to them songs and yes they are fully aware of it but do you know that rappers and some gangsters are afraid of dying? They only say that to make their image strong but the truth is some are afraid to die. Yes in that Point Rau of the system is not 100% accurate then its wrong to kill a man that you have no truthful evidence against. I know it have real bias-ness in court and they should be fair in all rulings.

Yes harsher methods should be put on small crimes like someone who rapes another person should be placed into life imprisonment.. Thats my point

 

[RauCous]

why the death penalty sucks.

Yeah sorry if I came across as trollish, angry or ignorant: i'm only one of those things. I just dont understand how people could conceive of it as a cure all. I'm ok with it being the law but only if the law and citizens have exhausted all options. I dont think we have yet just gotten complacent with passing blame.

 

[LadyDeath]

I understand what you are trying to say and it is not a cure for all crimes but yes it can be used as a last resort as what admin was trying to say. Tell me do you think Rapists should be sentenced to death?

 

[dudleysharp]

The two sites you listed are easily rebutted.

There are at least two sides to every debate. Hereis asmall part of the pro side.


Death Penalty Basics: Pro death penalty position
Dudley Sharp, contact info below.

In almost all cases, the anti death penalty claims are either false or the pro death penalty position is stronger, on any given topic.

Here are a few examples. More upon request.

"The Death Penalty: More Protection for Innocents"
http://homicidesurvivors.com/2009/07/05 ... cents.aspx


"Death Penalty, Deterrence & Murder Rates: Let's be clear"
http://prodpinnc.blogspot.com/2009/03/d ... rates.html


The 130 (now 135) death row "innocents" scam
http://homicidesurvivors.com/2009/03/04 ... nalty.aspx


The Death Penalty: Not a Human Rights Violation
http://homicidesurvivors.com/2006/03/20 ... ation.aspx


Cost Savings: The Death Penalty
http://homicidesurvivors.com/2009/05/07 ... nalty.aspx


Death Penalty Sentencing: No Systemic Bias
http://prodpinnc.blogspot.com/


Death Penalty Polls: Support Remains Very High - 80%
http://prodpinnc.blogspot.com/


Deterrence and the Death Penalty: A Reply to Radelet and Lacock
http://homicidesurvivors.com/2009/07/02 ... acock.aspx


"At the Death House Door" Can Rev. Carroll Pickett be trusted?"
http://homicidesurvivors.com/2009/01/30 ... lcome.aspx


Sister Helen Prejean & the death penalty: A Critical Review
http://homicidesurvivors.com/2009/05/04 ... eview.aspx


Death Penalty Support: Modern Catholic Scholars
http://prodpinnc.blogspot.com/


Pope John Paul II: Prudential Judgement and the death penalty
http://homicidesurvivors.com/2007/07/23 ... rrors.aspx


Dudley Sharp
e-mail sharpjfa@aol.com, 713-622-5491,
Houston, Texas

Mr. Sharp has appeared on ABC, BBC, CBS, CNN, C-SPAN, FOX, NBC, NPR, PBS , VOA and many other TV and radio networks, on such programs as Nightline, The News Hour with Jim Lehrer, The O'Reilly Factor, etc., has been quoted in newspapers throughout the world and is a published author.

A former opponent of capital punishment, he has written and granted interviews about, testified on and debated the subject of the death penalty, extensively and internationally.

Pro death penalty sites

essays http://homicidesurvivors.com/categories ... tters.aspx

http://www.dpinfo.com
http://www.cjlf.org/deathpenalty/DPinformation.htm
http://www.clarkprosecutor.org/html/links/dplinks.htm
http://prodpinNC.blogspot.com/
http://www.coastda.com/archives.html
http://www.lexingtonprosecutor.com/deat ... debate.htm
http://www.prodeathpenalty.com
http://yesdeathpenalty.googlepages.com/home2 (Sweden)http://www.wesleylowe.com/cp.html

 

[RauCous]

Thanks for the links. That's what I needed empircal evidence. I dont think the law is capable of enforcing a death penalty unless it is systematic and fair.. it needs to be standardized as a principle. That is a man cannot be given the death penalty to pacify the public or be made and example. Many people call for exactly this. It cannot be enforced any more or less because of a rise or fall in criminal activity. That is where I disagree with admin. It can only be enforced in cases of uniquely strong evidence. This should be true in this country. If the law says you die when you kill its a fair law.. not if it says we kill you IF you kill. I dont get the sense of unconditionality. The law has the option to exonerate who it wishes, it is not the general public to determine absolute guilt.. as a civil law entity not a moral one.
I see the fight against death crimes via gangs especially, as a war against something like terrorism. Retaliation leads to escalation. The death penalty is employed as a reaction masquarading as a prevention. To be it seems too late after a crime to be resorting too this. Most cultures still conceive of it as retribution.. if it is it is just more expensive than vigilanteism. Too many crimes are allowed to occur by the population, especially in a small country like this for the dealth penalty to be effective regardless of what I would choose to belive. Societies aren't as exacting and decisive about crime as the death penalty is towards murderers. If that much decisiveness is used as a reaction, retribution or deterrent is will be arbitrary in light of the slackness in every other law. The populace appears to be complacent with the act of the crime but extremly judgemental to the offender.. The need to be impersonal is required for the death penalty to be of any use. If the enforcing of the law is more absolute than personal it should be more effective.